Unlock the secrets to optimizing your website's conversion rates with the guidance of marketing analytics guru, Rafa Feliz. Our in-depth discussion peels back the layers of A/B testing, a cornerstone of Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO), offering you the tools to make informed, data-driven decisions. We analyze how to refine marketing strategies and address the nine friction points that influence consumer decisions, providing practical steps to effectively demonstrate your company's expertise and product value to potential customers.
As we traverse the digital marketing landscape with Rafa, we shed light on the transformative power of Google Ads A/B testing and dissect the nuances of headline optimization and its impact on engagement. The conversation ventures into the importance of communicating product durability and smart pricing strategies, and how A/B testing serves as the compass for navigating these critical business decisions. By testing and tweaking, companies can uncover the winning formula for their pricing communication and policies, leading to pivotal shifts that resonate with their audience.
The episode wraps with a strategic look at leveraging customer testimonials and the role of A/B testing in pinpointing the most persuasive ones. We also touch on the art of crafting return policies, guarantees that reassure hesitant buyers, and the meticulous setup of Google Analytics for accurate test tracking. Whether you're new to data-driven marketing or looking to refine your approach, our conversation with Rafa Feliz equips you with the insights and strategies to steer your digital marketing toward success.
Unlock the secrets to optimizing your website's conversion rates with the guidance of marketing analytics guru, Rafa Feliz. Our in-depth discussion peels back the layers of A/B testing, a cornerstone of Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO), offering you the tools to make informed, data-driven decisions. We analyze how to refine marketing strategies and address the nine friction points that influence consumer decisions, providing practical steps to effectively demonstrate your company's expertise and product value to potential customers.
As we traverse the digital marketing landscape with Rafa, we shed light on the transformative power of Google Ads A/B testing and dissect the nuances of headline optimization and its impact on engagement. The conversation ventures into the importance of communicating product durability and smart pricing strategies, and how A/B testing serves as the compass for navigating these critical business decisions. By testing and tweaking, companies can uncover the winning formula for their pricing communication and policies, leading to pivotal shifts that resonate with their audience.
The episode wraps with a strategic look at leveraging customer testimonials and the role of A/B testing in pinpointing the most persuasive ones. We also touch on the art of crafting return policies, guarantees that reassure hesitant buyers, and the meticulous setup of Google Analytics for accurate test tracking. Whether you're new to data-driven marketing or looking to refine your approach, our conversation with Rafa Feliz equips you with the insights and strategies to steer your digital marketing toward success.
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Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm here today with Hafa Feliz, who's an expert in marketing analytics. Of course, ab testing is a big part of marketing analytics in general and specifically. When you're doing content or doing a CRO, you're trying to figure out whether a certain idea you had, something you wanted to try, is actually working or not. You have to set up an organized AB test to get hard, reliable data that you can refer to when determining for a fact, not just based on your intuition, whether something is actually working or not so, rafa, can you briefly explain what AB testing is and specifically how it is part of the CRO process?
Speaker 3:Sure, Well, thanks to Bebe for the invitation. Alex, you gave us the basis, so it's all about removing the guesswork. In the past, there were two ways that we would make decisions on which way to go when it came to marketing and advertising. Or the market here was such a genius that he would simply know what was the best solution or the best option. For number two, the best companies. They would pay for very expensive marketing researches to determine that information. The good news is that now we can.
Speaker 3:This marketing research is available for small companies, for companies of any size at all, and it replaces it saves the equivalent of millions of dollars sometimes that you would do to actually guess to people, call people, talk to them in the street and stuff like that. So it addresses the same needs but in a more effective way, a cheaper way and even a more statistical relevant way. Let me give you an example instead of trying to explain. Imagine that you sell a software and this software solves 10 different kinds of problems, but we are not sure which of those problems are the most important problems for our audience, which of the solutions can actually catch our audience's attention. One way that we can address it is to write 10 ads, each of them addressing one of those needs, and in the end, we run the ads, we expose them to our audience and we see which of them gets more clicks.
Speaker 3:What we call the name of the KPI is CTR click through rate. So this is one. It could be also a change to the website. We can change the top part of the website, split the traffic and, in the end, see which of them performs better, and it can even be a change to the process of buying or getting contact in the website. So let's say that you have an e-commerce and you sell a software and you want to know the impact of giving a free trial to remove the anxiety of the audience. You don't want to give a free trial before you do that. You want to see if it can actually move the needle in improving the total number of people that are starting their purchase process. Great, we send half of the traffic to person with free trial and another part of it that won't get the free trial and we see if the uplift is real or if we are just wasting time and money giving the clients the free trial session.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good example. It actually sort of leads into the next thing we're going to talk about, which is addressing the nine frictions with AB tests. So a lot of people that do AB testing they're just like, okay, well, if I change this color of this module will there be more clicks. But you have to have a deeper understanding of that, to know what you want to try to AB test and to have a good idea of what's going to work. So at JMarketing we have a framework called the nine frictions that people have that you have to overcome to get them to make a purchase decision.
Speaker 2:And I think the free trial actually sort of touches upon the first and possibly most important friction, which is showcasing the completeness of your solution.
Speaker 2:Like, one great way to do that through an AB test is, like you said, just offering a free trial to 50% of people that visit the website and not offering free trial to the other 50%, because the free trial can show how complete the solution is, especially if, as I would recommend, like the free trial, it's like a limited time thing but you have all the features of the software, for example. So, yeah, I think that's one good way to showcase completeness of solution, or product performance as we like to call it. So another one of the nine frictions that is also extremely important one of the ones I would say you always have to touch upon is showcasing your expertise. So if a company wants to set up an AB test to try and figure out what the best way they can show their expertise is like, how would you recommend that they approach that process, and can you give examples of some AB tests for expertise that have worked in the past?
Speaker 3:Sure, so the first point is to try to tangibilize your expertise. So, is it certificates that you have? Is it a diploma? Is it 25 years of experience? So how can you tangibilize your expertise into something that we can test? So let's say that you have 25 years in the market, you have very specific certificates that not everyone has and, finally, you are accredited by a specific institution. So these are three possible tests that we can use to see which of those is more impressive to our audience. Of course we can, always, we can test them individually. So in this case, we are testing three different ways of showcasing our expertise, because let's say that you have a part on your website that you want to show your expertise and you want to understand which of them should go first, which of them should have more space on your website. So we can test them. But we can also test, as you said, completeness of solution against expertise, against each of the other friction points as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense. So can you give an example of, like you know, like a hypothetical ABE test for expertise that you might set up?
Speaker 3:Okay, so let's use what we have right in the coach industry he has. He's accredited by a very important person on the market, on his market and institution as well. He is even accredited by the government and he has a very long experience in the area. And we tested each of them, each of those points, to understand how we would build the website, so what should be for him. All of them are important and he could have a guess, the client could have a guess of which of them is more relevant to the market, but in the end, he's actually saying which of the three points is more relevant to him. If we need to understand the market, we need to remove the guesswork. We need to do that test and surprise, it was not the one that he thought that would win. And after this test that we compared the different ads, which of each of them having as a headline one of those points we got the data from, from the ABE test, and we improved structure of how we would showcase his expertise on the website.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you actually kind of brought up two important points there. So I think, firstly, it's like you said, a lot of clients, they have an idea of what they want to emphasize, highlight, you know, make more prominent, but that's really just based on what's more important to them. And I mean where we come in is we have to understand what's actually more important to their target audience, not what's more important to the client, which of course we do through. You know, ABE testing largely, and another interesting thing you brought up is doing ABE testing for messaging through like Google ads. But what you're testing is messaging you're going to put on the website. So can you talk a little bit more about doing Google ads, ABE testing for stuff that's actually going to be on the website?
Speaker 3:You mean related to expertise or in general?
Speaker 2:I just meant in general, like, if you're ABE testing messaging you're going to put on the website, like, but you do it through Google ads. So can you briefly touch upon, like, how and why you do it that way?
Speaker 3:Sure. Well, the reason why we're doing in via Google ads it's the main reason is because it's faster and we have a larger sample. So, yes, what we can do is we can make the changes directly to the website, for example, changing the first headline. There are tools that will show each of the versions of the website to a part of the audience, but then you are relying only on the people that actually went to the website. When we do it via Google ads, we can show it to a sample that's sometimes 10 times higher and so more statistical relevance, and we can also test it without actually making changes to the website, which has institutional components to it. So one thing is changing the ad, which is generally cheaper and smaller change, and you're not exchanging what people actually see on the website. That also can impact your brand and things like that.
Speaker 3:So we do the test on Google, we write the 10 different ads and then these tests, the result of these tests, the ads that will.
Speaker 3:These ads are going to be displayed, let's say, 10,000 times each of them for the audience, and the ones that get the more clicks will be the ones that will basically be ordered, ranked in a way, of the ones that can attract the most attention of our audience, that are more important to our audience and more catchy, and this will impact how we build our website.
Speaker 3:So let's say that we are again using the. Let's use the example of the expertise. We have those three components of how to showcase the company's expertise, and that's their accredited, their certification and the time that they are in the market. And if we discover that the government certification is the most important, we're going to put it right on top or maybe make a module just to talk about that. Eventually, we could record a video or an image or something like that, so we would. The website should reflect the importance that the audience gives to each of those components. This is how we will optimize the website's conversions. Of course, these knowledges are important to the business in general. We have even clients that you talked about shape their business model around the discoveries that we make on some of the A-B tests, so important they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely Thanks for that insight. Of course, that process approach used the Google Ads really applies to all of the nine frictions, especially for testing messaging rather than some other components such as whatever the placement on a page or the color, etc. So, moving on to another really important one of the nine frictions, which is product durability or long-term value, so if you want to use an A-B test to try and figure out the best way to show a product's long-term value, how would you approach that and what are some examples of A-B tests for product durability that you've run in the past?
Speaker 3:The product durability will be around going to purchase something, for how long it's going to be useful for me. So there are several approaches that we can give to it. So if we're talking about the software, we can approach the fact that, well, is this still going to be useful five years from now, two years from now, and also the time of the kind of the offer. So there are many companies that use the lifetime offer for a product. You buy it now and it's going to be useful. You can use it for the rest of your life. So we have these kinds.
Speaker 3:When we're talking about a product, a physical product, we can talk about the warranty. We can talk about the materials it's used. So let's say, whatever product it is, it's made of steel or things like that. That indirectly talks about the quality of the product. And finally, depending on the channel that we are using, what we're talking about Google ads, but let's say that we are using YouTube as a channel we can actually show the product and show the material it's made of and things like that. So comparing the different approaches will give us and running the campaigns and showcasing it to the clients and seeing which of them gets the most clicks We'll show us which aspect of the product durability can actually remove the friction points from the client's mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, there are several ways you can try and showcase the product durability and obviously collect data and compare and see which is the most effective way. So, moving on to product pricing, I know a lot of companies, especially a lot of B2B companies. They're a bit hesitant to display their prices. So I guess when you're testing different ways to show people the pricing of the product or at least give them an idea, which is something that people want, so it's really an important friction you have to overcome by actually providing them with some info. I suppose when you're doing A-B testing, you have to test out a few different approaches, obviously to see which is the most effective in terms of conversions. But there's also kind of a component where you have to maybe convince the client that they should take a current, a certain approach based on the data. So how would you approach product pricing for A-B testing for product pricing, keeping in mind that you also will need to use the data to convince the client to do something that might be a little bit reluctant about?
Speaker 3:Okay, well, first of all, we need to determine if it is a good strategy to even talk about pricing. So some companies simply don't want to talk about pricing at all. Is this a good strategy or not? Right? So sometimes this came from another. It's being a company's policy for some time, for whatever reason.
Speaker 3:So we can run ads to determine if it is good or positive or not to display the product's price. There are also indirect ways that we can use. So dealing with curiosity see prices here, or see a comparison table and tracking them to the website so that they can see the pricing compared against the features or compared against a competitor, things like that and finally, we have the price changes themselves. So we talked about the free trial, but we can have, for example, let's have promotion this month and what, where the prices are going to be down by 20% and see the impacts on sales, and we can do that by having different landing pages and different ads. That promotes different prices.
Speaker 3:Or even sometimes there are things that we can simply offer different price ranges on the ads and see which of them gets more clicks and what's the difference between them. So is it a 10% uplift? Is it a 50% uplift? Are we talking about a complete game changer that doubles the traffic to the website? So all of those are ways that we can effectively measure the impact of changing the price or giving a discount or things like that, or even the way that we talk about the price and see the impact that we'll have on sales or leads, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are quite a few different ways we can go about doing it, but, as you said, with a subject that can be a bit touchy, like displaying the product price, a lot of times it's best to simply start by abt testing, like a page that doesn't show the price and a page that simply does show the price, and then you can get past the first furrow, which is showing the client.
Speaker 2:Ok, the data shows that it actually is way better to display the price than to just not have any info about the price. Thankfully, most of the other nine frictions that we have to overcome the clients aren't more willing to test that and more willing to display the info, Like, for example, production capacity. When you want to show people that the company can actually deliver as many products as they need when they need them, most companies are very happy to display that info. So, as far as production capacity goes, how would you approach AB testing for production capacity and what are some elements on a web page that you might want to try out to see if they can overcome the production capacity friction?
Speaker 3:OK, so first let's maybe separate. If it's a service there are many companies that do that by showcasing their team. You can see that many websites address this by having the pictures of the team and also talking a little bit. Not just production capacity, it's not just about quantities, it's also about the quality. So, showcasing their teams' expertise and size, etc. They can also say things like the amount of employees they have, or it will depend on each company's differential that they have when it comes to a product.
Speaker 3:We have a client, for example, that they produce branded products with their clients' logo and sorry, with their clients' logo. And let's suppose that someone needs to have something for a special date. Their clients need to be sure that the product will be delivered on time so they can display how many products they have produced in the previous year. Or they can talk about we accept orders up to X amount and put a number that's high enough. So there are these different ways. So maybe the first thing is to understand what are your advantages? If you're a service, how are you different from the clients? How can you prove and tangibilize your production capacity and if it's a product more or less the same, how many products you can build, or your past experiences, your past orders and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you brought up a good point there, which is well, I mean, there are nine frictions. You want to try and overcome as many of them as possible. It's not always going to be possible to overcome all of them, so it's important to look at the clients' USPs and see which of the frictions you can overcome with the USP, Like, for example, when it comes to the next friction we're going to talk about timely delivery like, as one of the clients' USPs, that they can deliver their products or provide their services way faster than their competitors, and that's definitely one of the things you want to highlight. Even though it's not. If they don't have that USP, you can just skip over that friction but say they do have a very fast delivery time that's superior to that of their competitors.
Speaker 2:Like, how would you try to highlight that on a web page? I think specifically so. If you're talking about a detailed timeline that's just the same for everyone, or a customized timeline, that's that the customer themselves can whatever, put in their own variables and see a timeline and let's just best for them. Would that be an A-B test? You would run between, like, one timer that's the same for everyone or a customized timeline that's specific to that customer.
Speaker 3:Yes, I would. This would be a very good approach. I would say that delivery of any product or service starts with communication with the client. You have a website where people can call you or send you a message. How much time does it take for you to even go back to the client? There are several studies that show that if you reply in the first five minutes some of them say it multiplies by 50, the chances that you actually sell to that client. Some of them are even more aggressive in that number, but it's definitely huge.
Speaker 3:The delivery of the product or service starts with the impression of the delivery of the service. How your audience will see you in matters of delivery will start with your communication with them. I would put this as a major point. So communicate quickly with your client base. I have some clients that needs to make the business decision if they will be open for reply on weekends or not. We run the test. They want to know if there will be enough audience and people trying to get in touch during the weekends. We can run campaigns that will determine exactly that, just for them to see if it's economically viable for them to have an extra person replying to the leads during the weekend. It will depend on from business to business and from audience to audience.
Speaker 3:The important part is to combine the business model of the person but with what the audience is actually telling us via those tests. It's very common to try to make the audience fit into our offer instead of trying to make our offer fit into what our audience actually needs. The time delivery is just another point. Even if they have a longer delivery time and they want to know if they want to invest in a new solution to make the time delivery quicker, these tests can save a lot of money on their understanding. If that's actually the case, sometimes they can think well, this is going to be super important. We changed the delivery time and we discovered that what we make some kind of a test for a specific city let's say that they can deliver it quicker we see no tangible difference in the conversion rate. We can determine that no, this is not a good point to invest in the business because it's not going to bring us the uplift that we expect. It's better to invest in improving other aspects of the service or product.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I think you touched upon another good point there, which is sometimes you're running an A-B test. If you're running an A-B test, for well, should the client show that they can deliver their product or service really fast or not? Okay, well, obviously, if they do say we can deliver our product to you in one business day versus not having the information, that's going to definitely increase conversions. You also need to see how much better one option performs than the other. For example, for timely delivery, do they need to hire a part-time employee whose job is just to communicate with prospective clients on the weekends? Of course that would cost them money, but is the difference big enough that that would still be profitable if I hire another employee?
Speaker 2:That's exactly it. Yeah, and I think that applies to a lot of the frictions, including the next one we're going to talk about, which is showcasing the similar clients that companies have worked for. Obviously, if the companies show that, okay, we've worked for clients that are similar to our target audience, they've been happy with our product, that's going to help. If you want to put a bit more time and effort into it like, for example, try and get clients to record video testimonials maybe you have to pay for whatever cameraman, video editor and stuff like that. That would cost money. Is it going to be worth it for them to spend extra money on showcasing this expertise? I guess, going back to the basic approach for similar client expertise, what are the different ways that a company can show that they've worked well with similar clients, their target audience, and what are some hypothetical A-B tests you would set up for that?
Speaker 3:Just giving a quick recap on what is the similar clients friction points. That's also known as the full restaurant and empty restaurant scenario. So imagine that you are in a street and there are two restaurants. One of them is full of people, the other one there's no one at all. In which of them would you prefer to eat? Most people would say in the full restaurant. So this is the kind of impression that we want to bring and use to attract our audience. But there's a catch there. Imagine that you are 70 years old and the restaurant that's full it's full of teenagers 15 years old, and maybe the other one is empty and quiet. Maybe you will prefer the empty one.
Speaker 3:So it is about having what we call social proof. But the word similar is also. It's not just about having clients, it's about having clients that are similar to them. So this will actually start with understanding who are our clients and finding a way to tangibilize that. So in this example it would be age, but it could be size of company.
Speaker 3:So let's say that you have a product that you service big companies, medium companies and small companies. We need to understand in each segment of the advertising who are we actually reaching out for. So we can do an A-B test. So let's say that people are searching for your solution on Google using a specific search term and in one of them we can say something like we have solutions for enterprises. Another one, we have solutions for SMB companies, small and medium businesses, and with that, the one that gets the most clicks will tell us which kind of company or which size of company is using that specific term.
Speaker 3:This also touches a point that sometimes people run an A-B test and they think that because something is true for a specific segment, it's going to be true for the whole market. That's definitely not true. So when it comes to Google search, we will discover that certain keywords are more related to enterprise and other words are more related to SMBs. So this is a way. So simply let them know which of them we are targeting. So we can say that we have more than 1,000 SMB companies in our client base, or in the other we can say that we have clients among the biggest companies in the world and things like that, and see which of them performs best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you touched upon a really good point there, which is some companies think that you know, okay, we'll just show that we've worked with. These are the biggest, most well-known clients we've worked with. We'll just put that on our website. Even if maybe those clients aren't very similar to their average you know prospective customer, to their target audience. So you do need to do AB tests for different segments to determine which is best for which segment and which has the biggest overall benefit. It's sort of the same thing you need to do when you're trying to show that you offer really good customer service. You need to maybe run AB tests for different segments. So can you talk a little bit about how you would do an AB test for customer service and what like common you know elements or functionality is on a website you might try out?
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, it will depend a lot on the industry, but it has to do again. It has to do with the relationship with the clients, so you can talk about your policies in the customer service. You can give examples of how you will deal with the customer service. So everything goes really well before you buy the product, but after you will have different companies with completely different approaches.
Speaker 3:Testimonials testing testimonials is a very effective way as well, and so we can test different ways that we can approach the customer service differentials. But it can even be more simple. So let's say that you have five testimonials and you want to pick one to be on the cover of your website or to get specific attention. Most people will simply pick the one that they like the most. They can even pick the testimonial that the company likes the most for any reason, but maybe that's not the one that will reflect their real differentials when it comes to customer service. So we can do that via AB testing as well, by creating a net that takes people to different pages that showcase each of those differentials and see which of them can convert the best.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So, moving on to the final friction we're going to talk about. So, return policy or guarantee, when I think about this, I think there might be sort of a two-part AB test, or two AB tests to everyone, to put it, because a lot of companies they don't actually have a guarantee or return policy. So I think the first AB test maybe would be should they actually have a return policy or guarantee? Does that actually increase conversions a lot? And then maybe the second part would be how should they display the return policy or guarantee? What should the specifics be exactly? So is that how you would approach this as maybe a two-part process?
Speaker 3:First of all, the issue that this friction point addresses is the client asking themselves before they buy, well, what if it's not what I wanted? What if it cannot solve my problem? So sometimes, if you don't have a guarantee policy or return policy, things like that, we can address the sync problem through other means. So, for example, if we increase the amount of information about the product or service, we bring testimonials, there are other ways to address the same friction on their head. So that's one. But if you do have and we can test it, then definitely we can test the different approaches to it. So, for example, if you're giving a return policy guarantee and you want to determine how long it should be, so let's say we have a seven-day return policy, we have a one-month return policy, or what will it cover? What won't it cover? Best ways to test it.
Speaker 3:As I said, an important A-B test can even shape how the business model works, and sometimes we can go through a big effort thinking that, oh, we're going to give them six months return policy, imagining that with this sales will go up. But sometimes it simply won't and you just went, you just made all this effort for nothing or not a significant uplift. It is important for us to see, whatever change that you're going to make, what's going to be the impacts on sales, and sometimes it is huge. Sometimes you think the client thinks that that's not a problem, but it's actually the major problem of their audience. The A-B test will remove guesswork and give a statistically relevant information about that and give us the next step.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and of course, that really applies to all the different frictions, and one of the best ways to track the statistics accurately and make sure that you are getting significant results is using Google Analytics is a really important tool for doing A-B tests. So, briefly, can you talk about the process of setting up an A-B test using Google Analytics and analyzing it, and some common mistakes to avoid?
Speaker 3:Sure, but Google Analytics is the big brother, let's say, of the websites. They will monitor every single step of the client on your website and maybe the first problem is that many people don't do the correct setup. So the Google Analytics needs to be set up to, it needs to be fine-tuned to what you want to discover from your audience. So you need to determine what are the specific actions that will represent that engagement of the client. So sometimes you want them to download a video, sometimes you want them to fill in a form, buy a product, but sometimes just watch a video. Some clients have a longer bind cycle and you want to make sure that they watched a video first or read the specific part of your website. So having all of those goals set up is the first point. You have to determine them and then, of course, there's the technical part that you have to properly implement them.
Speaker 3:That's the point number one, and the second biggest mistake is to misinterpret the data. So there's a general idea that the more people stay on the website, the better. Sometimes it's good, but sometimes it's just that they don't understand how your website works and they're just lost. So if you have a lot, if you have people increasing the time they spend on your website and together with that, you have that they are filling in more forms or engaging more with you then it's great. But if you connect those two metrics people are spending more time on the website, they're spending more time on your website, but they're not filling in the form or buying your product.
Speaker 3:It probably means that there's a missing information or it's not easy for them to understand what they should do, and things like that. So this is just one example. We have hundreds of different KPIs and combinations that we can use, so misinterpreting what the data means is also a very big mistake. So, of course, there's a difference the gap between the data and the knowledge that you extract from the data. Being able to correctly interpret that is a major part of a successful data-oriented campaign.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it certainly requires a little bit of expertise to set up Google Analytics properly, not just to set up the conversion tracking properly, but also to interpret the data. It can be a bit overwhelming for businesses that may be just starting to think about A-B testing to optimize their conversions but say you're a business that's just realized they need to be doing this. The first step is probably to have experts review their marketing processes and determine where they should be doing A-B testing. What's the initial step you would recommend for businesses that just have figured out they need to be doing A-B testing?
Speaker 3:If you need something to be done correctly, some people say do it yourself. No, almost always this will not be the case. You need to focus on what you're really good at, focus on your business, and let the professionals actually do their work. On this specific topic, it does require not just a lot of technical expertise, but also experience, so you need to fail Sometimes. You need to do tests that don't work sometimes so that you can actually understand the correct way of approaching it. If you don't design the test property and all the tracking parts properly, you cannot do it retrospectively. You cannot, a year from now, look back or let's see what my data says. No, if you didn't set it up properly from the beginning, you won't be able to look back at the data and get extract all the knowledge that you need. So if time is important to you and you can really not afford to not be successful, I would definitely recommend that you search for an expert in that area, and J Martin has a very structured team capable of delivering that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. We're definitely experts with a lot of skills and knowledge and experience and doing A-B testing to improve businesses' conversions. So working with J Martin will start by getting a $995 digital marketing audit. It's a full marketing audit for every aspect of your marketing, including identifying places where you should be doing A-B testing to see whether a different approach will improve your conversions, and it also includes revealing your Google ads, seo, website design, everything you can imagine. So that's a great first start for businesses that know they need marketing experts in general and specifically for businesses that realize they need to be doing some A-B testing to increase their conversions. Well, rafa, thank you for coming on the podcast today and sharing your expertise. I know I learned a lot and I'm sure that our listeners learned a lot too. So thanks for coming on. Thanks, alex.