Business Life Hacks by JMarketing Influence Agency

Controlling User Flow Through Visual Hierarchy

February 18, 2024 JMarketing Agency
Controlling User Flow Through Visual Hierarchy
Business Life Hacks by JMarketing Influence Agency
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Business Life Hacks by JMarketing Influence Agency
Controlling User Flow Through Visual Hierarchy
Feb 18, 2024
JMarketing Agency

Unlock the secrets of web design that converts with the wisdom of Nik, a master of the digital canvas. We've all been to websites that leave us feeling lost or bored; our latest episode is here to make sure yours isn't one of them. Through an engaging discussion, Nik teaches us the art of creating a user journey that balances stunning visuals with purposeful content. As we explore the common traps of designing for yourself rather than your audience, you'll learn how to craft a website that seduces the eye and leads users effortlessly toward the actions you desire.

Nik doesn't stop at first impressions. He walks us through the transformation of casual browsers into committed customers, sharing strategies that make your website's value proposition irresistible. We dissect how to craft your site's layout, from testimonials that build trust to transparent pricing that eliminates hesitation. But it's not just about the sale; Nik emphasizes the importance of creating a navigational experience that makes users yearn to return, setting the stage for a long-lasting relationship with your brand.

Our insightful session concludes with a deep dive into utilizing user feedback to polish your website to perfection. Nik and I highlight the importance of stepping back and allowing an expert eye to analyze your site's performance, as satisfaction with the status quo can often blind us to the potential for excellence. By the end of our dialogue, you'll be armed with the strategies to create not just a visually appealing website but a powerful business tool that resonates with your audience and stands out in the digital marketplace. Join us and elevate your web presence to world-class standards with insights from the visionary Nik

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Unlock the secrets of web design that converts with the wisdom of Nik, a master of the digital canvas. We've all been to websites that leave us feeling lost or bored; our latest episode is here to make sure yours isn't one of them. Through an engaging discussion, Nik teaches us the art of creating a user journey that balances stunning visuals with purposeful content. As we explore the common traps of designing for yourself rather than your audience, you'll learn how to craft a website that seduces the eye and leads users effortlessly toward the actions you desire.

Nik doesn't stop at first impressions. He walks us through the transformation of casual browsers into committed customers, sharing strategies that make your website's value proposition irresistible. We dissect how to craft your site's layout, from testimonials that build trust to transparent pricing that eliminates hesitation. But it's not just about the sale; Nik emphasizes the importance of creating a navigational experience that makes users yearn to return, setting the stage for a long-lasting relationship with your brand.

Our insightful session concludes with a deep dive into utilizing user feedback to polish your website to perfection. Nik and I highlight the importance of stepping back and allowing an expert eye to analyze your site's performance, as satisfaction with the status quo can often blind us to the potential for excellence. By the end of our dialogue, you'll be armed with the strategies to create not just a visually appealing website but a powerful business tool that resonates with your audience and stands out in the digital marketplace. Join us and elevate your web presence to world-class standards with insights from the visionary Nik

Speaker 1:

Business owners. Do you want an unfair advantage over your competitors? Do you want to dominate in your area of expertise? You were listening to Business Life Hacks. Learn to influence consumer psychology and shortcut your way to business success with tips, tricks and hacks from award-winning digital agency J Marketing.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of J Marketing's Business Life Hacks podcast. This week we have world-class designer Nikolai here with us. Today we're going to be talking a bit about, obviously, web design, but specifically how we can sort of guide the user through the page what they call user flow through different design. So, nik, can you give us a brief update of what user flow through a web page is and how you keep that in mind when you're designing a page? Hey, alex, yeah sure.

Speaker 3:

Well, this topic is very for a designer. I have too much to say, so I'm not sure if I'm going to structure it the right way. But yeah, usually we in J Marketing, when we create strategy, we use line friction. They're just one part of the whole process because we're focused and our goal is to, let's say, if we follow the line frictions, this is just one step. This is all the copy.

Speaker 3:

We have all the stuff we need for the user to have the perfect amount of information on the web page, but now the biggest challenge is for us to actually place it on a live website. So it needs to be visible. We need to, as you said, guide the users. What we want to be like hierarchy wise, what we want them to see first. Second, how we guide them through the page desktop, mobile tabling. So there's like infinite amount of scenarios, infinite amount of users, and then we just need to find the perfect balance, and there are rules, there are laws.

Speaker 3:

I mean, usually what I like to do is follow.

Speaker 3:

Let's say, I have my own process, which is not fixed for every project, but most of the stuff, most of the mistakes I ever made in my career, I learned and I was reading, then I was reading, then you do some research and then you realize there's there is certain set of rules that you like to follow, at least the mistakes you don't want to make.

Speaker 3:

So let's say, we created perfect content, you sent it to me in the document, or we created a wireframe and then we want to go and put it in the design base. And if we don't consider some basic stuff like user attention or actually how many, how much time is user going to spend on our page? People, business owners, make those mistakes, as you're aware, probably even more than I am our clients. They think everything is important because actually everything is important to them, but for the users, we're making the website for their clients, for their users, not for them. So I guess this is the biggest problem for us to find the balance between, like let's put everything we need, like with the sentences, like bunch of text, and then like the basic stuff like how, when the user opens page, like they view the page and okay, it's going to be brought backwards, like F shape, and then why we put big headlines, like you always use H1. So yeah, there is a lot.

Speaker 2:

So I think one thing it's important to talk about a lot of well, business owners, like you mentioned, even a lot of like designers or copywriters. They'll either focus on just like putting all the information on the page or they're focused on trying to, you know, make the page look beautiful, but they won't actually think about the user journey, like guiding the user through the page to the point where you get to like this ETA module, when you try to get them to sign up for whatever sign up for an appointment or purchase something. So that's like one of the most important things we do at Jmarking with our design is we think about how to like guide the user to taking the action by and something set in an appointment that we want to do. Of course, we do that through making sure not just the copy but also the way the design is laid out addresses like the nine frictions users have that will keep them from buying something or setting an appointment. So, yeah, our design, as you were saying, it's a lot more than like.

Speaker 2:

Obviously it looks beautiful and has all the solutions that users need, but it's really based on consumer psychology and end goal is not to look pretty but to get people to take the app you know, book an appointment, buy something, et cetera. So, Like, when you're designing a web page, how do you think about like the user's mind, like their psychology, Like how they're thinking about you know, like what friction they might be having? Like, okay, at this point, when they're at this point in the page, they're probably wondering about, like, will the product performs really well? So I should have a really prominent Like module that really stands out, that shows how the product performs well. So I guess I was just wondering how do you think about like consumer psychology and your design?

Speaker 3:

Okay, well, to be honest, when we work together, we are a small team, but we usually work together, all of us, on every project. So what when the copy is done? I know a couple of you guys were there and and I am, or I already trust that what I get is Good. So, first of all, I'm gonna lay it down on the page, then I'm gonna give my feedback, that feedback and mind pack. But there are certain things that matter, like Structure of each module, like first, you see, you start from atoms. Like I'm gonna see, what fonts are we gonna use? Let's say, if we're doing a redesign, are we changing the font? Then what's gonna be our button? What's are gonna be our coral scheme Primary, secondary button. So there's a lot of atoms that that we will actually combine into the perfect. Let's say you why Because there are some common mistakes that we're avoiding, trying to avoid, and we're successfully avoiding. But yeah, why is heading bigger than a paragraph? What's gonna be the amount of pixels that I'm gonna? Let's say, heading is 32, is it gonna be enough if the paragraph is 16? Then how long is it gonna be? Or is paragraph gonna have to be? Or some details that, when you look at a design. Probably in your department you don't think about that that much, but, yeah, like position of every element and Actually this is the part I try to prepare. Like there are some laws that I like Keep mixing up their names, but they usually refer back to them from a book that I was reading like a couple of years ago or probably last year. There are some UX laws that you use and they're like pretty simple Sentences that that will explain you how user is gonna behave so, so, for example, jacob's law, or it is even have to be important. What's the name.

Speaker 3:

People use web and the digital products that are similar. Like you're a daily user, you open up, you know where, where you are gonna expect the navigation. There are some things there are there like that I mean, it is how it is and you can change it, but you're making huge risk. Like Imagine you open a website and I put navigation on the bottom. I may scare you away. There is like a ton of stuff that that we just want to follow and, of course, that doesn't stop us from being created just small did this? I use that like a checkbook to avoid mistakes. When you learn that, when you use specific metric system when you just try to Do consistent designs, but, yeah, the full product. I mean you guys from from marketing sector and from as you are cooperating.

Speaker 3:

Your focus, the focus on nine friction, explains the psychology or and the behavior and what we want to serve to the user. How do we make sure they can find everything they they need? Like we do our best. And then there's totally different Part of the story when I need to take that next actually to convert it to actual design that someone's going to develop and someone's going to use. So it's not just, as you said, beautiful design. Actually, today, most of you new designers can design pretty beautiful UI. I can do it. I can just open something, copy something, whatever.

Speaker 3:

There's a ton of inspiration, like today, you can learn to design, you can learn to use a tool, but how you scale it, how you hand it over to developers, like it's a full product and if you make a mistake, the only one who's going to suffer or suffer over, who's going to have a problem because of that, is end user and the client.

Speaker 3:

So it really matters how you do it. It really matters that you understand the problem. So there are, as I said a few key things that I'm trying to follow and avoid mistakes. But also, then there is totally different side of the project that we actually have a goal and we know what will make the client happy. We know what will push their business one step forward. So then we just need to find a way by following all the rules. How do we do it? So there is not an answer like, yeah, you need to do this because different amount of text. You know, sometimes client doesn't even have testimonials, even though they do a good work, they were never aware that the testimonials are something that they need. Yeah, they have the testimonials, but their imagery is not that good. So there's all factors. It's not one simple answer, but yeah, that's pretty much it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's like you were saying you have to. Designers have to remember that. You know, even though they're doing something creative, they're not like artists. Really they have to keep these, those roles you mentioned in mind so they don't scare away or confuse the users. So once you've decided how you're going to like follow those rules, like put the navigation at the top, put, like you know, the hero section, make it the first section, probably put like the whatever links to like terms, privacy policy and maybe like the contact info at the bottom. Once you've figured out how you're going to follow those rules and you're like looking at how to lay out the page, so when you're talking about like the most important parts of the page, like maybe the hero section and the call to action section and stuff, how do you like make sure that those really important parts like grab the user's attention?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, first you need to, let's say if you accept that user is going to, probably on average I don't have exact data but 20 or 30 seconds they're going to spend on your websites, website, or maybe that's even too much. So, yeah, of course, hero section is the most important. So what do we do there? Usually, I would discuss with you or you will. You would always, you would usually send me the strategy and the full copy. Then we discuss the link to page one. It really depends what font style is the client using? Was their brand? How it's? How is it going to fit? Is it readable if it is serif font or sans serif? Font at every point is going to work, Like if it's five words or 16 words. So so we really need to pay attention on every detail. But yeah, of course we're going to make sure how key hero section. So so what problem do we solve? Or who do we solve it? The key message and something that's like first thing back. Actually it is the most important loading speed. When we design a page, when we talk to the tabs, we need to make sure we're not creating caves like ton of functionality that's useless and then you never even join our website so. So we did everything for nothing. Actually, we create a bigger problem than we solve the problem. So, yeah, hero section is the most important. You need to load it fast and, of course, what's the most important, You're not supposed to get frightened from amount of information.

Speaker 3:

I know people are like, yeah, this one, this one, this one, like, let's include everything. Well then we would never have a website, you would just have, like, everything on the same section. But yeah, now you need to split the content, you need to guide the user and you always need to make sure whenever user ends up I know top of the page is usually I mean not usually it's it's more visited. I mean, when you observe the heat maps, you always see like user attention is they land and then they go down and they either go somewhere or just leave your website. So you need to create strong sections on the top. But if you're just like we just need the first couple of sections, If you have a user that's down below on your website, then that's probably someone who is a bit more interested. So now you need to fascinating even more. So the quality should be the same, but you actually need to make sure that heavy text, a lot of information. It shouldn't be on top. Like on top is something like where we grab your attention. You came here to solve a problem and we offer a service that will solve you a problem, but if we just write a bunch of tags, you will never even realize how good we are for your problem. So, yeah, we need to don't be that aggressive, Like what I usually like to say when we're discussing. Open 20 websites, see what you like.

Speaker 3:

Remember what was your previous good experience when you were shopping online, or so I usually go back to IKEA when I'm doing shopping with IKEA, it's like for me, especially because it's my work, I mean, it's every part of the process, Even when I finish, when they say like, delivery is every time. Like when they say it's going to be sorry and I thought it's going to be sorry, and not the day before they sent me an email prepare your room, because I was ordering a bed for guest room. It was like tomorrow you're going to have a delivery, prepare your room, remove unnecessary stuff from your room, because tomorrow you're going to receive a bed. So I was like yeah, they actually reminded me. So I remember something like this and I was like, wow, that's some small detail. Good website can give you leads, but for a whole business like you need to actually provide great service, so there's like everything involved.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so once you've provided all the provided the most important information and grabbed the user's attention, then we'll move on to how you can actually try to influence them to convert to book an appointment or purchase something. So say, we have like a hero section with like a really, you know, bold, colorful image, big, colorful headlines, and we've grabbed the user's attention. Now how can we start to, like now that we've grabbed their attention and give them like the most important information, like where do we go from there? Right, like in the, say, the module right below the hero section? How would we start to influence them to, you know, make a conversion to book an appointment, to purchase something, after we've already grabbed their attention?

Speaker 3:

Okay, well, we need to show a lot, a lot more value than just we grabbed their attention. Now here comes the second section. So you're going to have to see why are we the best fit for you? Because usually if you're trying to get a service, most of the times you're not just having our website open, you open probably two or three more competitors. So, okay, if our first part of the website is just caught your attention, then you're on the second section, then we're going to show some value, something like if it is a service, okay, probably you're going to have to see is our solution complete? Like, okay, this is our solution, but you really need to know a bit more details. Like, okay, money back guarantee or whatever. It doesn't have to be that, but is your solution a complete solution? Is it going to work for me, did you help?

Speaker 3:

So now, not all of the stuff I'm going to say is going to be in the same section, but we will rearrange or we will see what's the best order for that. But yeah, is there any similar people that you've helped? Like, if I'm a business and then I see you help the business that I'm fully familiar with, or the industry I'm familiar with, then I probably going to go and read their case study and then I'm going to I will go even deeper. I'm going to see their website, then I'm going to see their social media. So I'm going to see if they're real people, if their success is real. Then I'm going to go back to the website and see even more case studies. Then I'm going to go and see some more testimonials. So, yeah, you need to prove what you said in the beginning of your website, but you're not going to do it in one section, and it's not. It's the purchase decision, like usually, if it's something big, like you're selling software or service that's not that cheap, you're not going to make decision in 20 seconds. Ooh, good, hero section Ooh, nice. Second module Okay, connect your cards 100K. Well, it's a process. So you need to touch on all the nine frictions. You need to show even more like every client has different story, so even nine frictions are unique for each one of them. It's not like we're robotic pulling the process or something like that, but it's a foundation and then you build up on top of it.

Speaker 3:

So I probably forgot to mention all those stuff, but you're going to always have about page. You're always going to want to be clear about your pricing. Like you know Instagram pages, like it was here at my place, it was like a joke. When you ask for price, they're like, okay, send me in the inbox. Like, why are you selling something? I want to? If you're posting something, why don't you just write in the description like price, like typical e-commerce website? I know e-commerce and Instagram they're not the same. It's totally different experience. But this is me off when I need to do one more step.

Speaker 3:

So, when we do want to create designs, we want to make a perfect balance so you don't have to for every information. So, yeah, that's why you create a side map. That's why, even before you start, you're going to have to think about like million of things. Even, let's say, we're creating a website, but that website has 10 pages. We need to see if we will need the 10 pages. Maybe we need seven, maybe we need 25.

Speaker 3:

So how are we going to structure the menu, the navigation? How is it going to work with mobile? We want to make sure, like, if you want to find something, it's easy for you to do it. We want to avoid that. You have any questions? Like you don't have to think about like, oh, where is the four? It should be easy. But the navigation contact us or you'll see a button that's going to say contact us, or so some of those things are also important when you're building the whole structure, because people will get back to your website. They will come for more information. They will probably pause today, continue tomorrow. So we are not designing, developing or writing content or creating websites for just like one visit and then you go and buy it. Usually people take a lot more time. Then we will always have something to offer to them that will help them and move them towards to go sign up on the test by the talking, like that.

Speaker 2:

Right. So it's like you were saying there's got to take, well, all the nine frictions into account. You can't always touch upon all the nine frictions in the design, especially if you're just talking about, like, say, you're just talking about the home page, but Think, a lot of times there are, in my opinion, there are some of the frictions that are like more important than others and there's kind of like a usual Flow through a page like a lot of times.

Speaker 2:

You know, as you, as you were saying, we'll have the hero section and then the one, the module below, that will be focused on you know the product performance, how the service or product completely solves people's people's problems, provides a complete solution, and Then, like generally below that, will start to like we might have a Small module that shows like the logos of some similar clients.

Speaker 2:

So I think you got to have product performance performance module. You got to have at least one, probably two, like similar clients modules. My opinion like one, maybe one that shows logos, one that shows testimonials and also it's really important, if possible a lot of clients are very resistant to this, but if possible I think you should also have like a module like probably near the bottom, close to the CTA module, that gives people like either the price or at least like an idea of what the price is. So I guess I was wondering that layout that I have in my head where it's like hero module, product performance module, similar clients module that has the logos and then maybe some more stuff about specifically the solutions and then a testimonial module and then like a price module and then like a CTA module. So if you can picture that layout in your head, do you think that would be a good layout? As far as like guiding people through the page and overcoming their frictions and stuff, yeah well since we are talking about the imaginary client and imaginary problem.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I guess so, but you know, in reality you always have to balance, like clients, which is what you think is good for a customer client. So in reality it's gonna really be like it really depends off. There are some, some brands or some industry that will highly benefit of big images, like we never now mentioned images. So if you're doing renovations, your big company doing renovations, we really want to show your work. You don't even have to write a case study you can ideally. But even super big pictures With small quotes, quote from owner or real people are behind this business and these are our real results. That can also be beneficial for the whole storytelling. But yeah, what you mentioned are the sections we would never like to go without. And then sometimes you're gonna add more. You're gonna add block post in the footer. You're gonna maybe add news before the footer newsletter, like there's a lot of stuff you're gonna add on top of that. But yeah, this is some something like we shouldn't left out the things you mentioned.

Speaker 3:

Maybe you want to go and say something a bit more about us. That's not usually part of nine frictions because it's not directly connected with your buying cycle. But it's something that's gonna be helpful. It's a module that can probably Navigate you to the about us page where you will will you probably can show one more friction in the whole About us page, or we will maybe if we have services. We're gonna show a couple of services. We don't have to show you pricing here, but then you're gonna go to another page where we can probably dive deeper in pricing or price ranges. So we don't have to show here. But then we have. We need to have a plan to guide you from here to somewhere else. But it's important If we're gonna talk about pricing.

Speaker 3:

If we really don't want to show the pricing, then let's have it. At least make it easy for the user that they can ask you a question about the price or set up a call with your age Of order, with your D member. So it's not the dead end. You you never want to see a dead end. Especially, imagine you have person that's actually interested, and I bet it happened to all of us. You really want something, but experience is impossible, like you are. There's something, their website is not working, you are adding things to the card, it's not working, or whatever. There's a ton of examples, but that's how you lose money.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, we always got to keep the user journey and the user experience in mind. You can't really just pop in one module because you think it'll look good or pop in one module just because you think Information should be there on the page. You have to keep the user flow and the user experience in mind and you really have to test because, like, you can have a good idea of what the user experience will be like you know, just based on your experience and your Education and stuff. But you really have to test whether you're running like a A B test with thousands of people or just showing like a few. You know people who don't work as designers so you can get their feedback. So I think that's one of the biggest tips we can give to people watching the podcast If they're working on their design is, even if they think it looks great, make sure they they test it right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, cheapest way of testing it ask for feedback people that are close to you, so you don't have to run Some groups that you're interviewing people, record people. You can just ask a friend then. Then then see, like it, ask someone that you think is gonna be the user Sounds, who's gonna use your website or product, you can get some advice. Then you can check out who is successful in industry and why you can find connection. You can open the websites. You can see okay, this is the way I was learning. Then I do I design something. Then I go and see, like, okay, this is the way people do it. And then I see some other websites that are not doing so. Then you realize there are no rules. There are rules, but you know every situation is different, so you shouldn't blindly be like, okay, apple does it this way, we're gonna do the Apple way for every customer, every industry, every budget, everything. No, you need to really understand who are you talking to. And then you saw most of her problems actually.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so if you're gonna give a few more just like quick, simple tips for people who maybe people who are trying to Design their own sites, as far as how they could have a good User flow, like what are a few easy little tricks that they could do?

Speaker 3:

well, if you're gonna start you, you just First what people usually do. Now I'm just talking about my mistakes, like from 10 years ago. You just want to start everything. You want to start everything now. You want to finish everything yesterday. It's just because you want to build your own website, but you need to person to hold.

Speaker 3:

You need to think, you need to plan by doing that. It's not just about saving the time, like, yeah, you, if you plan today, you're gonna save more time. Avoid mistakes, yes, but you need to really. You really need to make a plan because you need to know what are you doing. It's easy I can just set up work press by a team. You know how people are. But, yeah, what, what then? It's like everyone can do it. It's not like everyone can do. There is million factors. But if you're gonna do it alone, then you should try to make a plan.

Speaker 3:

What is your goal Like? Why are you doing it? Who's gonna use it? Okay, competitors. You need to do big, super basic competitor research International, local competitors, global competitors. What do they have? Okay, they, they, they have product photography. That's high quality. Okay, then you, you should probably get high, high quality product photography.

Speaker 3:

I mean, those are the basics, but you need to probably find the connection between your industry. It's not what you like. That's gonna Create like some leverage. And then you're gonna I like this, and then I'm gonna create like great website based of just what I like. You're not creating it. Look like the first, most important deep. You're not creating it for yourself. You're creating website that's gonna serve your business, that's gonna be your business, but it's up for you.

Speaker 3:

And then if you try to just skip that barrier, and then you're gonna be like okay, so we're just putting my wishes on the other side. Now I'm gonna see how there's the future. You never copy others, but you need to realize what your users are using. So your user. If you are defiant let's say, basketball coach then I'm gonna go and see what are the other basketball coaches, because my future students Probably visit the south their websites then I'm gonna think that I'm talking about our cheap but can bring more value, a lot of value. Then you, you pick up a few people then ask them what you think about this. Then you get actually real feedback that someone pays for. That feedback you can get it for free. And Then, of course, there is a ton of stuff rules. But if you're not an expert, just Probably a couple of tips learn for who you're designing, remove the barriers or whatever like remove your ego.

Speaker 3:

You're not gonna just create, design the best website just because of you like it. You, you, you willing, if you're like top 1% designers in the world, that you know what you're doing. But there is a lot of factors. So, of course, second advice would be you don't have to put everything in one section. You don't have to tell the whole story in one section, the whole website, the experiences of journey. So take it easy and there's a lot of stuff you can read. So all of the things I said. That's the part when I say you want to start now, but you need to hold, make a boss, take a deep breath and then take a couple of days, a couple of weeks, a couple of months. No, some planning, and then you're gonna create a better product for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So people following this design advice, these tips, they can probably create, like you know, a decent website that looks okay. And third, trying to get leads will probably get some leads. But, of course, when you're talking about like businesses that are, you know, live and die based on how many leads and conversions they get, they're spending a lot of money on this. At that point, it's definitely worth it to hire Experts like like us, like J marketing, and have someone like you has like a lot of experience and a really deep understanding of the consumer psychology, psychology to To maximize their profits, because you know, I mean, the difference between having like that decent, say, e-commerce website and having a really good one is, I mean, can be millions and millions of dollars.

Speaker 2:

So it's more than more than worth it to hire an agency. If you're serious about making money Like if you're just creating like a little website for yourself, then you can probably just follow some the advice that you just gave and do a good job. But if you have, like you know, a serious business, it's definitely worth it to hire.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I agree, starting from a point that If I need the website today, I can create one word, I can design it, I can build I. I need them help. I need the expert in marketing. I need expert in SEO. Even if I am from the industry, I could do decent job or okay job by myself, but this is not. What about data security? What about backups? What about, like there is million? If we are okay now promoting the completeness of solution, of course agency will offer you.

Speaker 3:

Okay, we had, you have a team that's working on that for the past ten years, so you already know what's gonna work, what's not gonna work. At least you're getting closer, because you did it so many times. Then you can say how this page performed it well, why it was two years ago. This was the page. Let's see, let's understand. Then you can use similar stuff for future clients. If you know the industry, you already did the research. Now you do one more research, but you're already You're a expert for the industry, but you're familiar with industry. Then you're familiar with the what.

Speaker 3:

What I need to create for you Like a website, okay, if I'm gonna do it by myself. Yeah, as I said, seo, I can design good website, but if I don't, do you do SEO, who's gonna be with her website? Maybe if I'm sending you in my email like here's my website, but then how we create SEO? You needed to have a strategy before what. What is the approach there?

Speaker 3:

It's not like, hey, brok, create me an SEO, sure, but it should start all start before and then, if agency is gonna do it, all of us. We really know what's gonna happen. Like here is new website. Then we know our process. We know that we're gonna have to think about like, because our goal is not just to do a website for you. If we do a good website for you and we do a good job for you, then we're gonna become long-term partners. So If we help you grow, you will help us grow. So, like the big effort and the complete commitment by the people that have more experience than you, if you're gonna do it by yourself or internal team I mean, it's just my opinion let's say to me that yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2:

I totally agree, though, because having experts with a lot of experience, even if you're just talking about web design, will help a lot. But, as you were saying, there's more that goes into having a successful website than web design. You got to have good SEOs, you actually have people come into your website. You have to have all the analytic stuff set up. So we were talking about testing web design, what you need the analytic stuff set up so you can know which version is performing better. Of course, you're probably going to want to have some Google ads to send paid traffic to your website, and at IJ Marketing, we actually offer a full, complete $995 digital audit where we'll look through every aspect of your marketing from web design, seo, analytics, google ads, et cetera and analyze it, give you important, actionable feedback and tell you what next steps you can take to really skyrocket your leads and your conversions. So just reach out to us and we can get started on that process.

Speaker 3:

I agree. How do you say it? However, you think your website is good. A pair of fresh eyes. If you created something, then you're maybe not even aware Is it a good or bad. If you're having a decent performance, you may be happy with it, but maybe you can have more than decent performance, so you never know.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, Especially when you're talking about experts rather than just asking someone does this look good or not? But you have an expert analysis that will just help you a lot. Okay, I think that's the podcast done. Thanks for joining me and talking with me Today, Nick. I appreciate your time.

Speaker 3:

You're welcome. I hope we will do it a couple more times. I do have a lot more to say.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, there are a couple more design topics that we want to talk about, so have you on the podcast again.

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Optimizing Website Layout for Conversion
Creating Effective User Experience in Design
Expert Analysis for Website Design